Calling in "sick" when you're not

[psyched]

Last year, I told them ages in advance of Tisha B'av, they "couldn't" give me off, couldn't find replacement, so I called out. The Nurse Supervisor was attitudy to me, wanted to know what specifically was wrong, and told me that she "happened to know that I'd been asking off for this particular day."
How wrong was this on a scale of 1 - 10?

Onwards: Dh has off July 4th weekend. We both work very hard and would love to have a long shabbos/weekend in the country. He has off sunday (usually works) but I can't have off bec one other day nurse who has seniority already got it. I want to call out. It practically makes me cry that they couldn't care less about me. I worked EVERY non Jewish holiday this winter- New Years, Xmas, Thanksgiving, Memorial day. I trooped in one day in a snowstorm via a bus, 2 trains, and then walking several blocks in the snow. But they can't give me the lousy day off.

Next: Is this legal? We're an 1199 hospital if any of you are familiar. That means ppl with seniority get priority for vacation time. I was just denied vacation time in Aug when my family will be in from israel and I really want to spend time with them. Thing is- the reason I was denied WASN"T someone who has seniority, is someone hired about 3 months ago who they promised this at time of hire. does anyone know if in this case the 1 nurse out at a time thing still applies.

I'm so upset over all this. Literally every time I want to take off, it's a no go.

[achot]

[

Question One
OK, so the same thing happened to me, I was new, and the facility was actually owned by jews but the DON was this horrible black woman who was terrified that I was a plant, she gave me a hard time (putting it mildly), I only wanted to work there because there were so many jewish pts- mostly Holocaust survivors who had no real family to check on them and the neglect and abuse to them, made me want to improve their lot. (I had volunteered there as a H.S. student)
To make a long story short (not my strong point) I was denied Tisha B'av off even though I asked early, and worked every non Jewish holiday. I even appealled to the Jewish owners who said they cant interfere.
I did not want to call in so I came in, did the minimum and sat on the floor in the treatment room to say Kinos for the rest of the time. I had explained to my co-workers what the day meant to me and they were understanding and supportive as I helped them on other days.
I was afraid of a Chillul Hashem to call in and didn't want an Ayin Hara if I did so in the fear of getting a migraine because of the fast.
But a scale from 1-10? I dont want to go there...


Question two:
of course they CAN, they dont WANT to, (Ich Vill nisht not Ich Kan Nisht!!)

Question three:
Keep a record of vacation time that you have been denied despite reasonably requesting in advance and why you wanted the vacation (family from outside the country visiting etc.) and What reason you were given for the denial .
How many days off are coming to you? Do you lose any by not using them before the end of December? If you want yo can speak to a Union Rep about this.

BTW calling in when denied a day off doesnt look good, I would tell them in a note that you called in because you really were not up to par that day and couldn't safely give your best or even your regular nursing care that day, ( I imagine you dont call in often)

I feel for you but know that the schedule is hard to cover and its impossible to please everyone, it just sounds like you are constantly getting the short end of the stick.
You deserve a break!!

[psyched]

So you're saying that in nursing, a sick day is an actual SICK day. Not just time that you can take off when in a lurch. In dh's place of work, you can choose to use your sick days whenever. In fact sometimes he'll tell them "I won't be in next sunday, I'm taking a sick day."
Oh boy. What to do now? We're going out of state for shabbos, and I was planning on calling out on sunday. (since they couldn't/didn't give me off) now I feel bad. Maybe I'll be able to find a ride home?

[medic09]

Boy, I've come back to lots of stuff I haven't read!

My thoughts; worth what you paid for them.

1. Psyched already touched on this - are these 'sick days', and only to be used for illness; or are they discretionary days? How does the workplace or contract define them? As far as our huge value on honesty and integrity goes, that may be of importance. Since I'm not a full-timer and work without benefits, I haven't bothered to learn the minutae of 'personal days' and 'sick days', etc. From a point of yosher, you don't want to call this what it aint. The semantics are important.

The one time we had a bit of an emergency, I told the charge nurse that I was giving her a few hours notice that I wasn't coming in because of an emergency. I didn't call in sick. Fortunately, we play nicely together in our ER, and they knew I would do this if it wasn't pretty important to me.

2. They need to know that 9 Av is a time that a Jew MAY work, but traditionally does not. They need to know that it is a 24+ hour fast, and you won't be very sharp because of that. Patient care and safety may suffer.

3. If you must work, please speak with your rav as to how to handle the fast. I do not think the issues about not washing, not greeting, etc. are significant in the patient care context. I do think whether or not to fast at all, or how much/how so is very much a question that should be asked. Could someone's life be at risk because you're mildly dehydrated and hypoglycemic? That's a real issue in my opinion, and worth asking. It may vary depending on how well you tolerate the fast. Achot already mentioned her migraines, for example.

It was a holy argument between me and some other soldiers outside of Tzur in south Lebanon, 9 Av in '84 or '85. After discussing the issue with Rav Mordechai Eliyahu when home for a visit, I told the hevra that they were not to fast. Those on active patrol were to eat lightly and drink as much as normal. The heat was brutal, and dehydration was an issue on a good day. Those not on active patrol were not to eat, but they were to drink to prevent dehydration. We were literally in enemy territory, though with the upper hand; and everyone had to be sharp. Despite the source for my psak, many of the guys argued and said even if it was Rav Mordechai Eliyahu who said so, they were not breaking the fast. Personally, I think they were wrong and potentially endangered all our little team; but what holy stubbornness! Or maybe stubborn holiness. ;D

Let us know how you resolve this, please.

[achot]

Jul 2, 2009 9:29:01 GMT -5 psyched said:

So you're saying that in nursing, a sick day is an actual SICK day. Not just time that you can take off when in a lurch. In dh's place of work, you can choose to use your sick days whenever. In fact sometimes he'll tell them "I won't be in next sunday, I'm taking a sick day."
Oh boy. What to do now? We're going out of state for shabbos, and I was planning on calling out on sunday. (since they couldn't/didn't give me off) now I feel bad. Maybe I'll be able to find a ride home?

Yes a sick day is actually a sick day but once in a blue moon, use it if you need it, after all you are entitled to a mental health day.
However as a manager if a nurse asked for a day off (and we are required to give the first two requests as long as they dont interfere with previous requests) and didn't get it for whatever reason then calls in, it gets filed in her personal file and if she does it too many times we fire her without compensation.
OTOH, I once went to work when my husband asked me to take a mental day, I told my supervisor who chided me that my marriage is important too and I should have called in and taken a mental health day- since then take mental health call ins like once a year and it helps,. you have to have luck when picking supervisors!!

[achot]

Jul 2, 2009 22:12:51 GMT -5 medic09 said:

It was a holy argument between me and some other soldiers outside of Tzur in south Lebanon, 9 Av in '84 or '85. After discussing the issue with Rav Mordechai Eliyahu when home for a visit, I told the hevra that they were not to fast. Those on active patrol were to eat lightly and drink as much as normal. The heat was brutal, and dehydration was an issue on a good day. Those not on active patrol were not to eat, but they were to drink to prevent dehydration. We were literally in enemy territory, though with the upper hand; and everyone had to be sharp. Despite the source for my psak, many of the guys argued and said even if it was Rav Mordechai Eliyahu who said so, they were not breaking the fast. Personally, I think they were wrong and potentially endangered all our little team; but what holy stubbornness! Or maybe stubborn holiness. ;D

Let us know how you resolve this, please.

Actually my son just finished Course Ketzinim (Officer training) - may Hashem watch over and protect all Am Yisrael where ever they are....
As part of the course he had to fast for 5 days, the first two no water, the last 3 with water and then a bit of bread...it turned out during a chamsin (very hot weather). I was so nervous, ...and they had to work for the duration, ...not lie in bed.... they survived, I asked him about Tisha Bav, they all work and fast, when you are young its easier, I advised him to tell him soldiers to avoid coffee or caffeine for a few days before the fast.

Medic touched on an important point, If there is a good atmosphere of give and take (we start with the giving...) and friendliness on the units you might get more cooperation. I always try doing more than my job, helping the nurses aids and other staff and find when I need cooperation, or a day off, they are happy to help me.

What will you do with the July 4th weekend? that's up to you,
You have to decide what requires more of your attention at the moment, your marriage and family or your job, who will understand and who you can make it up to later... also how are things at work, are you easily replaced or is the job easier to replace.
I once was called to fill in a call in on a shift where I had company coming, I called my friends, we rearranged for another day and went to work,
I cant leave my patients high and dry, my friends will understand...But if you really need this weekend, then call in and deal with it on Monday.

[chanab]

Where I work, sick days seem to be somewhat discretionary. I would go over the days I needed off for yom tov with my supervisor and ended up covering them all between sick days, vacation, and ppd's. It worked out, but I really davened that I didn't actually get sick - cuz I didn't have the days to be sick this past year! I think as long as one has the understanding that the days won't be available for actual sick time, it is ok to use sick days for other things.
I'm sorry your workplace seems so uncompromising with your schedule. I hope you can figure out a good solution for this weekend!

[achot]

Chana, thats great that it works for you, and in theory it should, but not every DON has the luxury of enough staff to do what you do, I would never let a staff member plan a sick day in advance for anything but sick (although I consider a mental health day once in a blue moon necessary for your health) \.
Besides, what would one do if they use all their sick days and then really get sick?
Psyched tell us how it works out for you..SHabat Shalom

[Rivka P]

I just realized that I am scheduled to work 3-11:30 on erev tisha b'av! yikes! I hope I can change my schedule.

[achot]

Yeah in the beginning of every year I set up my Yoman (personal day diary) with all the birthdays of my family ( quite large) and a reminder a MONTH in advance to ask not to work on certain shifts like erev Tisha B'av, so it doesnt creep up on you
I also schedule in my yearly physical exams etc, car check ups, a note when I have to change my oil and tires and most importantly when my Mezuzot need checking,
My Yoman is very important to me
I also record there my work hours etc.

I am working 7am-3pm with the option of leaving at 1pm erev Shva asar BTamuz. But I work in a religious facility (Baruch Hashem) and they understand, few other nurses fast on those days so they are nice about it.

[Rivka P]

yeh I should be more organized. I just called in and changed it. Baruch Hashem a thousand times that my job is so flexible.

[chanab]

We're supposed to request time off a month in advance and I totally forgot about Tisha B'Av until I saw when the Jewish dr I work with was sched off. B"H I was able to get the day off! I had to work 8-7 on 17th Tammuz and that got kind of interesting towards the end of the day when I was the only RN on the floor. B"H we didn't get any last minute traiges in!

And while where I work is short staffed, I think my supervisor is probably happier to know in advance when we're going to be short so she can plan appropriately. I just daven that I'm never so sick I would have to call off.

[achot]

...and I daven that Tisha Bav this year will be a celebration and not fast day for all of us!!!!
Shenishma Besorot Tovot!!

[Rivka P]

amen

[psyched]

I tried to post this once before but it got deleted. In short:
After I read these posts I thought, Okay, I can't make a chillul Hashem. I called every nurse I know to see if they could work for me on that sunday. Nobody could. I was crestfallen. I said, "Hashem, it looks like we'll be going away regardless. Please help me so that I don't make a chillul Hashem." About 3 minutes later the staffing office of my hospital called to ask if I want to work that very evening in lieu of Sunday!