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Post by Rivka P on Jul 21, 2008 2:53:21 GMT -5
I would really like to know if refusing to hire someone on the basis that they will not work friday nights or saturdays is discrimination. At our first event, I hope to bring in a lawyer to discuss just that. I want to start planning an event when we near 100 members. So far, we have 40 on the facebook group. How can I get people from the facebook group to join this forum?
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Post by iriska on Nov 12, 2008 9:04:13 GMT -5
In our hospital (NYU), the following shifts are considered weekend: saturday day, saturday night, sunday day, sunday night. On day shift, I work every Sunday. I'm going to night shift in 2 weeks, and with Shabbos ending aruond 6 I'll be able to work both saturday and sunday nights for a few months. When I interviewed and brought up the shabbos issue, the manager said that she would hire me on the spot but she needed a few days to see if she can accomodate shabbos. They got back to me 3 days later with a yes. But I am the only frum person on my relatively large unit. People, don't be intimidated. On my unit there are many people who are in school, so they always have 2 days of the week off, and it is not a problem. Others like sundays off to go to church, so they work every saturday. So we frum people are not the only ones with issues
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Post by iriska on Nov 12, 2008 9:08:23 GMT -5
Another people I would like to add for those who are on the job hunt. Sometimes it might be a good idea to hold off anouncing your shabbos problems until your interview with unit manager, because he/she will know for sure if it will be a problem or not. Recruiters, on the other hand, may brush you off right away - "I don't want to deal with this". Also, do not put this info into resume or cover letter, and wait until the end of the interview to bring this up, so that they already want to hire you
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Post by Rivka P on Nov 12, 2008 11:30:40 GMT -5
Iriska, I did wait to mention shabbos to the unit manager, but then when they reported back to HR, they mistakenly told them, "she cannot fulfill our weekend requirement" so HR called me back and said, "why didn't you tell me?!" In my new job hunt soon, I still plan on waiting to bring up shabbos with the unit manager, but I am afraid not to say anything, because a friend of mine did that and she ended up with a "if you don't work on shabbos, we cannot hire you" situation and ended up working on shabbos. I know she walked to work and it's possible she asked a rav, but it ruined her social life and I am just not prepared to do something like that. sigh...
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Post by chavamom on Nov 12, 2008 15:24:51 GMT -5
I work on a floor where the division requirement is to work 1 weekend every three weeks. Instead of that, I work every other Sunday. I split the weekend with a woman who is a Jehovah's witness who works every other Saturday.
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Post by chavamom on Nov 12, 2008 15:28:44 GMT -5
I would really like to know if refusing to hire someone on the basis that they will not work friday nights or saturdays is discrimination. At our first event, I hope to bring in a lawyer to discuss just that. I want to start planning an event when we near 100 members. So far, we have 40 on the facebook group. How can I get people from the facebook group to join this forum? My understanding is that it is not. I once had a hospital hire me with the understanding that I would not have to work Shabbos and then received disciplinary action b/c of a shabbos issue. When we spoke to lawyers they said that the hospital was within their right. Everyone basically said it was a really stupid thing for them to do but that it was legal. What can I tell ya'.
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Post by Rivka P on Nov 12, 2008 15:44:04 GMT -5
but chavamom, it's not considered religious discrimination?
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Post by chavamom on Nov 24, 2008 12:46:23 GMT -5
Sorry for the delay. Apparently the religious discrimination issue is not as clear cut as we think. For starters, you can avoid hiring someone b/c d/t their relgious needs they can't meet your needs. Also, the hospital I had an issue with was a Catholic hospital. Catholic hospitals (and other relgions for that matter) can claim to be "religious institutions" and they are exempt from federal law protecting against religious discrimination. It's totally bogus and everyone knows it, but no one has challenged it
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chanab
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by chanab on Nov 26, 2008 9:05:20 GMT -5
I had heard something similiar when I was applying to hospitals. It's discriminatory hiring practices, not constitutionallly religious discriminations. And if it would be a hardship for them to cover those shifts and hire on other people, they can refuse you employment. But would you really want to go work for a hospital after you sued them to get hired?
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Post by achot on Jan 11, 2009 7:54:20 GMT -5
Enorman - where do you work because the hospitals in my area seem to have trouble defining what a weekend is. Anyone else had to turn down jobs or been refused a job (depite the legality issue) because of Shabbos? Yes at Schneiders Childrens Hospital. Their loss.
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Post by Rivka P on Mar 5, 2009 14:54:09 GMT -5
Why is a part time employee expected to work both weekend shifts every other week? PART TIME! Don't you think one shift on the weekend should be enough?
sigh.
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Post by achot on Mar 6, 2009 2:28:39 GMT -5
I work on a floor where the division requirement is to work 1 weekend every three weeks. Instead of that, I work every other Sunday. I split the weekend with a woman who is a Jehovah's witness who works every other Saturday. exactly my idea- works well!!! everyones happy.
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Post by achot on Mar 6, 2009 2:33:43 GMT -5
Why is a part time employee expected to work both weekend shifts every other week? PART TIME! Don't you think one shift on the weekend should be enough? sigh. What I think and what they expect are two different things, it all depends on their need to fill shifts and whatever you worked out when you accepted the position. Don't forget they have tremendous pressure to keep the units properly staffed- they cant close their doors on SHabbat or any other day... I would put my cards on the table at the end of the first interview, after wowing them with my intelligence, enthusiasm and willingness to be flexible in all other areas, promising to work every Sunday (even if that means missing a wedding..) often works. If you are a valuable employee it will be worth their while to hire you even with this "handicap"
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Post by Rivka P on Mar 6, 2009 10:56:06 GMT -5
nah, i am currently looking for a job. I have been home for a little while raising my baby. they called to offer me a position yesterday (yay!) but they made it clear that I would have to work on shabbat (total bummer) I called my rav and he said that I should stay away from heterim in terms of shabbat and something else will come along.
I just needed to rant a little. thanks for listening.
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Post by medic09 on Mar 6, 2009 13:17:59 GMT -5
Rivkah, thanks for sharing your rav's brief response about working on Shabbat.
I've been meaning to put together a post outlining some of the issues involved, but just haven't had time. It is not a simple issue. What's more, many many people assume certain permissions/heterim in halachah that either may not apply or don't even really exist. Of course, sometimes the opposite is true and we end up being strict about something that doesn't warrant it. There is no substitute for learning Torah.
If I get around to this, I of course have no intent to paskin or even influence anyone's choices. It would be very important, though, in terms of increasing our application of Torah to our profession and maybe helpful when one goes to ask questions.
YUTorah has at least two very good talks in MP3 by Prof. Avraham S. Avraham "Pikuach Nefesh on Shabbat" and "Being a Jewish Physician". There are obvious applications to our profession. In addition to his experience as a physician in-house, he is an important talmid hacham who was a student of Rav Shlomo Zalman Aurbach. I recommend his talks by way of spurring some thought and further learning.
Shabbat Shalom all!
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