Post by mypprincess on Feb 10, 2009 11:47:01 GMT -5
Here in NY the opportunities are not the same. I have applied to every hospital in Manhattan, Rockland and Weschester counties, some even in Brooklyn and the Bronx. Most hospitals Won't hire without a BSN, and those that do have enough applicants with hospital experience. (I couldn't find a job in a hospital yet!) I'm running out of options. The job market is terrible and if I don't find a full time job soon I'll have to sell my house . Of course I'm still looking. I'll keep you updated.
From MYPrincess: "Recently I received phone calls from heimishe organizations that were looking for nurse managers. One needed a nurse to oversee a all their group homes in the area. Another needed someone to manage just one home. Most openings I found so far are for the managing position. "
Can I ask a question: Do they pay decently? My experience with "Heimeshe organizations is that they offer about 10 dollars an hour for RN's . Is this still true?
BTW I was just pointing out that facilities- hosp and SNF's are replacing RN's with LPN's as an example of how the more educated you are- you can get too expensive for the facility- esp in these difficult times. I never meant to discourage eduction. MYP we need RN's here in Israel- think of what you will save on tuition for your kids etc. I can offer you a job right away in Yerushalayim if you want.
Post by mypprincess on Feb 12, 2009 14:47:29 GMT -5
Heimishe organizations pay more than government-owned similar organizations. For example. A group home run by Yedei Chesed will pay for an RN between $30-35/hr depending on experience and seniority. This is upstate. In new york city the pay can go up to $40/hr. (But then you'll have to pay for traveling expenses + time traveling. Its true that facilities are replacing RN's at an alarming rate, but this was done before and not without consequences. As a result, many LPN's lost their jobs and RN's took over almost all the work. I guess hospitals have not learned from their experience. How about a balance? Also, there are enough jobs that LPN's are not licensed to perform including care plans, blood administration, patient teaching, admissions, and more. So the RN's that do work probably don't work physically with the patients any longer. Also, I said last time that I will keep you posted. Well, just a few hours ago my boss called and apologized that due to a decreased in income the amount of nurses with be decreased and because the full timers need to have at least 32 hours in order to receiver insurance I will have to be let go. She apologized profusely and asked me to stay for per diem and that she really liked my work but unfortunately, will have to let me go.
Speaking of saving on tuition, sure, the tuition is less, but the pay for RN's in Israel is much less than here (according to what I heard).
One thing I don't understand. Beth Israel Medical Center just hired A whole group of new Israeli nurse graduates. I don't get it! Don't we have enough nurses here looking for a job? I'm floored!!
Mypprincess, thanks for your reply- I am glad that Heimishe places improved, when I first became a nurse I thought I would only work for such a facility- and was floored when they offered me a very low salary. I am sorry about your Job- I promise you, when a door closes, a window opens. I am a little bit older than you so I can only tell you that in the end you will look back and say that this was the best thing to happen to you. Can you do MDS work? I used to freelance and do that. Beth Israel wont hire you? Have you tried there? I would love to hear how the Israeli nurses acclimate to work in BI- I agree that it makes no sense. Who knows?...THese nurses trained in Israel or in the states? Whatever... I can only encourage you to keep sending out your resume and keep trying- the right job will come along...hopefully soon, All the best, Achot
Post by mypprincess on Feb 16, 2009 10:02:57 GMT -5
achot, thanks for your encouragement. I have applied twice to Beth Israel and was told that they will hire only their own graduates. This is why I was so enraged when I heard about the Israeli grads (from Hadassah) that were accepted into their new nurses program. Yesterday was my last day on the job. I received some goodbye hugs from the girls in that home and I was also thanked by some parents for what I did. I plan to go to visit the residents every once in a while. They are all part of my family now. Honestly, developmentally disabled people are more like young children who have not yet mastered the art of insincerity and are still open and frank about their feelings. It is THEIR complement that carries the most weight.
In my area they seem to be moving away from LPN's, and more towards unlicensed assistive personnel (don't get me started on that one!). Although we will have 2 LPN positions opening at our clinic - anyone know someone interested in moving to a small midwest community???
achot - I was under the impression that LPN's still need to work under the supervision of an RN, how can they be charge nurse? I know our LPN can't do certain duties, but for some he can add one of the RN's as a co-signer. Others, he's just flat out of luck. Or we are, cuz we have to do it instead.
I think pursuing higher education depends on what you want to do. I want to eventually move to E"Y, they don't recognize my ASN, I need to go get my BSN. If you want to be a NP, you need to go all the way for that degree. BTW with all those minute clinics opening in grocery stores, great new positions available for NP's. And for the truly motivated, they now have those dr's of nursing programs. Ultimately, if your willing to do the work, there will always be jobs for nurses at whatever level your on, not always in the are you want, but there will always be work.
I resent working with an LPN and having to give half their meds because they "cant" Many LPNs have much more experience than I do and I bet they feel badly/inferior having to ask a new RN to give a push med just because of the different letters. What's the difference in their training anyway?
I hate to be sucked into this but if you look up the definition of LVN you will get: "An LVN is a Licensed Vocational Nurse which is a nurse that is licensed by the state to provide routine patient care. Some states use the term LPN or Licensed Practical Nurse rather than LVN. An LVN can work in a hospital, long-term care facility, convalescent home, doctor’s office or surgical center, providing many of the same services also performed by Registered Nurses (RNs). The LVN, however, must be supervised by RNs or doctors, and cannot do everything an RN does The LVN is usually trained for a year to two years in anatomy, physiology, and patient care, differing from the RN, who has several more years of advanced science and frequently a four-year education. Once education is completed, the LVN must also do supervised work prior to applying for licensure. Many would argue that the LVN is one of the hardest of workers, though most receive about half the salary of an RN, approximately 24-48,000 US dollars (USD) per year. Many LVNs decided to achieve their RN after a few years of work, to take on more challenging work or to have the salary to which they are richly entitled"
Another site(State of California Board of Consumer Affairs) gave this: " Licensed Vocational Nurses (LVNs) 1. What is a licensed vocational nurse (LVN)?
An entry-level health care provider who is responsible for rendering basic nursing care.
A vocational nurse practices under the direction of a physician or registered nurse.
The licensee is not an independent practitioner." A third site (www.allnursingschools.com/faqs/lpn.php) " Licensed practical nurses care for the sick, injured, disabled or convalescent. They bring their caring, sympathetic natures to hospitals, home health care services, nursing care facilities, physicians' offices and other health care providers and agencies.
Working under the direction of physicians and registered nurses (RNs), LPNs and LVNs attend to patients in a number of ways. Depending on the nature of their job, they might:
* Take vital signs * Gather patient health information * Prepare and deliver injections * Assist patients in personal hygiene tasks * Collect lab samples and perform routine lab tests * Help care for and feed infants * Teach patients and family members about good health habits * Supervise nursing assistants and aides
Get more information in our article about licensed practical nurse jobs."
Unfortunately, many facilities do hire LPN's as supervisors, I dont get it , but they get away with it somehow. ironically what the RN working under the LPN doesn;'t know is that on paper to the BOH, Her RN license is covering the LPN' Supervisors actions!!!!! I now work Baruch Hashem in a facility with a Director who respects education and licenses.
I am currently in school to be an LPN. The program I am in is called "same entry, multiple exits". We have the exact same first year of training as the RNs. We have the same lab, clinical, classroom and written training as they do. Their second yr is 2 semesters and has more theory-based learning, while ours is one more jam-packed semester of hands-on. To complete the RN we just need to pass our boards and then finish those 2 semesters. I don't think it is unfortunate that some LPNs are hired as supervisors. I also think that it is incorrect to say that they aren't licensed to do things like care plans, teaching, etc. That all depends on the the type of facility and actual place you are working. Some stuff is statewide, but a lot of what LPNs can or can't do is per facility policy. An instuctor of mine who is an MSN said that one of the best mentors she ever had was an LPN with way more experience. I know I'm still in school and most of you are already practicing, but I think everyone needs to be an individual fit for their job and responsibilities. Plenty of RNs who are licensed to do care plans and pt teaching do a really lousy job.
While there is good and bad in every field and I am sure I can show you some LPN's that function better than most RN's, you still have to respect someones degree and based on the work expected, the degree must cover it- just as I wouldn't go to a PA for an appendicitis, I might use a PA for a throat culture or ear infection. As you write, you are still young and inexperienced, take it from someone (Proudly) older and more experienced- there is a difference in the education and functions of an LPN and an RN, to say otherwise is just mocking the education that the RN works hard for. If you think LPN's can do everything that an RN can do- you are mistaken. There is room for both LPN's and RN;s and we should all work together. As to care plans, if you are educated and can write them and the state allows it (I don't know where you are from,) then go ahead- but know you are responsible professionally for what you write and if it is wrong or leads to a mistake, your license can be on the line,
I strongly encourage you to go all the way and get your RN as soon as possible Lots of Luck!!
achot - I actually went through the same program as samg, albeit for the RN and not LPN, and I have to say that after they restructered the program to be 'same entry, multiple exits' it seems she is getting a more comprehensive education than I did as an RN. Which I am definately jealous of.
"As to care plans, if you are educated and can write them and the state allows it (I don't know where you are from,) then go ahead- but know you are responsible professionally for what you write and if it is wrong or leads to a mistake, your license can be on the line" - This is always true regardless of what you degree you hold. Personal accountability in your nursing care isn't negated because you hold a less advanced degree.
Furthermore, in our area, there are few differences between what us allowed to be done by an RN or LPN. The LPN I work with has I think 3 things he can't do that an RN can. He was even trained in giving those scary looking Zoladex injections before any of the RN's. Obviously in a hospital setting, some of the meds like IV push meds might be more of an issue with an LPN, but it all goes back to whatever area you're working in. I look at people's experience and skill before I judge them based on the degree they hold. And I truly believe in working together as a healthcare TEAM across the spectrum of degrees.
In every field or profession, there are better (or stronger) schools that prepare you for the work and there are weaker schools. There are also better students and worse students,. Some students graduate nursing school with a more comprehensive preparation than others. Some skip classes and manage to cram for exams etc. This is why there are licensing exams that sort of set a standard for the profession ( and we all know that some schools better prepare u for the exams than others...). The system is not perfect.
There are laws that set down what a PA can and cant do and there are laws that define what RN's and LPN's can do. IT IS NOT AN INSULT- it is a framework to ensure quality of care.
Just as there are separate driving licenses for buses, and motorcycles and cars- my license for example does not allow me to drive a bus - even though I am sure I could easily learn and master the skill, the law makes sure that I pass an exam before I can safely do this.
I disagree with what you write about being few differences in the responsibilities of an RN and LPN, if so, why bother getting an RN??? Being trained to giving a "scary" () Zoladex injection is different than being licensed to do so!
There is a reason why LPN's are not licensed to give IV push medications, even thought I am sure an LPN can learn, even a layperson can learn.. My 15 year old 10th graders (4 of them) all took courses at Magen Dovid Adom (something I could write on a forum like this) and can give IV push meds in an ambulance under the guidance of the ambulance driver!!!DOESN"T MAKE THEM RN's!!!
I AM NOT JUDGING ANYONE, but I think it is presumptuous for me to act like I can do more than our Doctors, even if I am more skilled than some of them in certain things because of my past experiences.
"Looking at peoples experience and skill" is different than being LICENSED!!! If a 12 year old can drive a car do we let them??? Just because a 16 yr old can teach a lesson, doesn't mean we hand over a class- will she make a helluva teacher one day with the proper education? absolutely!! But we dont have 16 year olds or unlicensed teachers taking responsibility for our kids education. I know dentists who are not licensed as orthodontists but dabble in it nonetheless, I think it is wrong. We can agree to disagree on this point and I will respect you your opinion.
Regarding working together as a team- you are not alone, I have too proven and many can testify that I respect EVERYONE in my team, ...the laundry staff are a very important part as are the psychologist etc.
The difference between you and me is that I respect them for who they are, the position they hold and would never put them in a position to lose their licenses by asking them to do something they are not qualified by law to do.
If we don't respect the law- well what does the Torah say- even a bad government is better than none- we'd all eat each other alive!!! When the law tells me that there are no differences between LPN's and RN's, I will happily respect that as well.
My apologies for hijacking the thread; but if he is supervising the administration of IV meds, he isn't an "ambulance driver", he is a paramedic. A professional trained, examined, and licensed (certified in some places; in Israel it's a license as I recall) in prehospital medical care. S/he makes a potential diagnosis, prescribes and administers some pretty scary drugs and treatments. Often with no doctor to consult. (Although Israel still uses the European model that has MDs on some ambulances.) And yes, s/he does all that while supervising and directing the actions of other crew members in pretty chaotic situations. And, in Israel, quite a handful are graduates of combined programs that have them finishing as Paramedic/RN.
Just a plug for the profession.
Mordechai Combat Medic 09 (medical sergeant) IDF National Registry of Emergency Medical Technicians-Paramedic Board Certified Flight Paramedic Oh, and also RN/BSN
;D And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...